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Objections to the Proposed Constitution From Extent of Territory Answered
From the New York Packet.
Friday, November 30, 1787.

Author: James Madison

To the People of the State of New York:

WE HAVE seen the necessity of the Union, as our bulwark against foreign danger, as the conservator of peace among ourselves, as the guardian of our commerce and other common interests, as the only substitute for those military establishments which have subverted the liberties of the Old World, and as the proper antidote for the diseases of faction, which have proved fatal to other popular governments, and of which alarming symptoms have been betrayed by our own. All that remains, within this branch of our inquiries, is to take notice of an objection that may be drawn from the great extent of country which the Union embraces. A few observations on this subject will be the more proper, as it is perceived that the adversaries of the new Constitution are availing themselves of the prevailing prejudice with regard to the practicable sphere of republican administration, in order to supply, by imaginary difficulties, the want of those solid objections which they endeavor in vain to find.

The error which limits republican government to a narrow district has been unfolded and refuted in preceding papers. I remark here only that it seems to owe its rise and prevalence chiefly to the confounding of a republic with a democracy, applying to the former reasonings drawn from the nature of the latter. The true distinction between these forms was also adverted to on a former occasion. It is, that in a democracy, the people meet and exercise the government in person; in a republic, they assemble and administer it by their representatives and agents. A democracy, consequently, will be confined to a small spot. A republic may be extended over a large region.

To this accidental source of the error may be added the artifice of some celebrated authors, whose writings have had a great share in forming the modern standard of political opinions. Being subjects either of an absolute or limited monarchy, they have endeavored to heighten the advantages, or palliate the evils of those forms, by placing in comparison the vices and defects of the republican, and by citing as specimens of the latter the turbulent democracies of ancient Greece and modern Italy. Under the confusion of names, it has been an easy task to transfer to a republic observations applicable to a democracy only; and among others, the observation that it can never be established but among a small number of people, living within a small compass of territory.

Such a fallacy may have been the less perceived, as most of the popular governments of antiquity were of the democratic species; and even in modern Europe, to which we owe the great principle of representation, no example is seen of a government wholly popular, and founded, at the same time, wholly on that principle. If Europe has the merit of discovering this great mechanical power in government, by the simple agency of which the will of the largest political body may be concentred, and its force directed to any object which the public good requires, America can claim the merit of making the discovery the basis of unmixed and extensive republics. It is only to be lamented that any of her citizens should wish to deprive her of the additional merit of displaying its full efficacy in the establishment of the comprehensive system now under her consideration.

As the natural limit of a democracy is that distance from the central point which will just permit the most remote citizens to assemble as often as their public functions demand, and will include no greater number than can join in those functions; so the natural limit of a republic is that distance from the centre which will barely allow the representatives to meet as often as may be necessary for the administration of public affairs. Can it be said that the limits of the United States exceed this distance? It will not be said by those who recollect that the Atlantic coast is the longest side of the Union, that during the term of thirteen years, the representatives of the States have been almost continually assembled, and that the members from the most distant States are not chargeable with greater intermissions of attendance than those from the States in the neighborhood of Congress.

That we may form a juster estimate with regard to this interesting subject, let us resort to the actual dimensions of the Union. The limits, as fixed by the treaty of peace, are: on the east the Atlantic, on the south the latitude of thirty-one degrees, on the west the Mississippi, and on the north an irregular line running in some instances beyond the forty-fifth degree, in others falling as low as the forty-second. The southern shore of Lake Erie lies below that latitude. Computing the distance between the thirty-first and forty-fifth degrees, it amounts to nine hundred and seventy-three common miles; computing it from thirty-one to forty-two degrees, to seven hundred and sixty-four miles and a half. Taking the mean for the distance, the amount will be eight hundred and sixty-eight miles and three-fourths. The mean distance from the Atlantic to the Mississippi does not probably exceed seven hundred and fifty miles. On a comparison of this extent with that of several countries in Europe, the practicability of rendering our system commensurate to it appears to be demonstrable. It is not a great deal larger than Germany, where a diet representing the whole empire is continually assembled; or than Poland before the late dismemberment, where another national diet was the depositary of the supreme power. Passing by France and Spain, we find that in Great Britain, inferior as it may be in size, the representatives of the northern extremity of the island have as far to travel to the national council as will be required of those of the most remote parts of the Union.

Favorable as this view of the subject may be, some observations remain which will place it in a light still more satisfactory.

In the first place it is to be remembered that the general government is not to be charged with the whole power of making and administering laws. Its jurisdiction is limited to certain enumerated objects, which concern all the members of the republic, but which are not to be attained by the separate provisions of any. The subordinate governments, which can extend their care to all those other subjects which can be separately provided for, will retain their due authority and activity. Were it proposed by the plan of the convention to abolish the governments of the particular States, its adversaries would have some ground for their objection; though it would not be difficult to show that if they were abolished the general government would be compelled, by the principle of self-preservation, to reinstate them in their proper jurisdiction.

A second observation to be made is that the immediate object of the federal Constitution is to secure the union of the thirteen primitive States, which we know to be practicable; and to add to them such other States as may arise in their own bosoms, or in their neighborhoods, which we cannot doubt to be equally practicable. The arrangements that may be necessary for those angles and fractions of our territory which lie on our northwestern frontier, must be left to those whom further discoveries and experience will render more equal to the task.

Let it be remarked, in the third place, that the intercourse throughout the Union will be facilitated by new improvements. Roads will everywhere be shortened, and kept in better order; accommodations for travelers will be multiplied and meliorated; an interior navigation on our eastern side will be opened throughout, or nearly throughout, the whole extent of the thirteen States. The communication between the Western and Atlantic districts, and between different parts of each, will be rendered more and more easy by those numerous canals with which the beneficence of nature has intersected our country, and which art finds it so little difficult to connect and complete.

A fourth and still more important consideration is, that as almost every State will, on one side or other, be a frontier, and will thus find, in regard to its safety, an inducement to make some sacrifices for the sake of the general protection; so the States which lie at the greatest distance from the heart of the Union, and which, of course, may partake least of the ordinary circulation of its benefits, will be at the same time immediately contiguous to foreign nations, and will consequently stand, on particular occasions, in greatest need of its strength and resources. It may be inconvenient for Georgia, or the States forming our western or northeastern borders, to send their representatives to the seat of government; but they would find it more so to struggle alone against an invading enemy, or even to support alone the whole expense of those precautions which may be dictated by the neighborhood of continual danger. If they should derive less benefit, therefore, from the Union in some respects than the less distant States, they will derive greater benefit from it in other respects, and thus the proper equilibrium will be maintained throughout.

I submit to you, my fellow-citizens, these considerations, in full confidence that the good sense which has so often marked your decisions will allow them their due weight and effect; and that you will never suffer difficulties, however formidable in appearance, or however fashionable the error on which they may be founded, to drive you into the gloomy and perilous scene into which the advocates for disunion would conduct you. Hearken not to the unnatural voice which tells you that the people of America, knit together as they are by so many cords of affection, can no longer live together as members of the same family; can no longer continue the mutual guardians of their mutual happiness; can no longer be fellowcitizens of one great, respectable, and flourishing empire. Hearken not to the voice which petulantly tells you that the form of government recommended for your adoption is a novelty in the political world; that it has never yet had a place in the theories of the wildest projectors; that it rashly attempts what it is impossible to accomplish. No, my countrymen, shut your ears against this unhallowed language. Shut your hearts against the poison which it conveys; the kindred blood which flows in the veins of American citizens, the mingled blood which they have shed in defense of their sacred rights, consecrate their Union, and excite horror at the idea of their becoming aliens, rivals, enemies. And if novelties are to be shunned, believe me, the most alarming of all novelties, the most wild of all projects, the most rash of all attempts, is that of rendering us in pieces, in order to preserve our liberties and promote our happiness. But why is the experiment of an extended republic to be rejected, merely because it may comprise what is new? Is it not the glory of the people of America, that, whilst they have paid a decent regard to the opinions of former times and other nations, they have not suffered a blind veneration for antiquity, for custom, or for names, to overrule the suggestions of their own good sense, the knowledge of their own situation, and the lessons of their own experience? To this manly spirit, posterity will be indebted for the possession, and the world for the example, of the numerous innovations displayed on the American theatre, in favor of private rights and public happiness. Had no important step been taken by the leaders of the Revolution for which a precedent could not be discovered, no government established of which an exact model did not present itself, the people of the United States might, at this moment have been numbered among the melancholy victims of misguided councils, must at best have been laboring under the weight of some of those forms which have crushed the liberties of the rest of mankind. Happily for America, happily, we trust, for the whole human race, they pursued a new and more noble course. They accomplished a revolution which has no parallel in the annals of human society. They reared the fabrics of governments which have no model on the face of the globe. They formed the design of a great Confederacy, which it is incumbent on their successors to improve and perpetuate. If their works betray imperfections, we wonder at the fewness of them. If they erred most in the structure of the Union, this was the work most difficult to be executed; this is the work which has been new modelled by the act of your convention, and it is that act on which you are now to deliberate and to decide.

PUBLIUS.

Tuesday, May 18th, 2010

Howdy from Texas. I hope you had a nice weekend. I started reading a wonderful book this weekend, which I have found to be a great companion piece to our “90 in 90 = 180.” It is entitled, “Miracle at Philadelphia,” by Catherine Drinker Bowen. Check it out!

I thank Professor W.B. Allen for his thought-provoking essay today. I really appreciate his time and talents. I thank you, Professor Allen. And I thank all of you who are joining us! Please spread the word about our important mission here and read it with you children and/or family members or friends. Please also spread the word about our contest for kids. The “We the People 9.17 Contest.” Our children are in desperate need to be educated about our founding principals. It is up to us to teach them. Check out tonight’s behind the scene video. It is my daughter informing other kids about the contest!

Tonight’s reading once again reveals our Constitutional founding fathers’ amazingly brilliant ingenuity. It is obvious from the Constitution that they did not want any resemblance of class warfare or “Nobility.” The art of a Republic was the perfect balance for a democratic state. James Madison makes a striking point regarding the complaints that there was no precedent for a Republic. Was there a precedent for the Declaration of Independence, that courageous and biting document that sparked and validated the Revolutionary War? Was there a precedent for the Revolutionary War?

Regarding relevancy today, how many modern day citizens really know that we are a Republic? Do our children know that we are a Republic? Do they understand and value our freedoms, rights and free enterprise? In one of Cathy’s recent essays, she included a link to a statistic that I found to be alarming. A Rasmussen poll in 2009 stated that 13% of people over 40 years of age believed that socialism was better than capitalism, yet in the group of people under the age of 40, 33% believed socialism was better than capitalism. I find this statistic to be very alarming! Imagine what the statistics would be today?

Thomas Jefferson words send us a timely warning, “If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.”

James Madison states in Federalist No. 14, “The kindred blood that flows in the veins of American citizens, the mingled blood which they have shed in defense of their sacred rights, consecrate their union, and excite horror at the idea of their becoming aliens, rivals, enemies.”

May our kindred blood unite in preserving our truly magnificent country and may we focus on both the founding principles that shaped our country and the goodness of the people that made it be. May we set the precedent for rekindling the flame of awareness about the brilliant framework of our country and its relevancy today.

God Bless!

Janine Turner

 

Tuesday, May 18th, 2010

Federalist #14

First, a big thank you to Dr. Allen for his insightful comments.  As usual, Dr. Allen does much more than simply explain to us what is in the reading, he takes us several steps further.

And thank you to all of you who commented today.  Especially to Kay for her heartfelt story about the airport encounter, and the glimpse into the soul of our Union.

Wow! I loved Federalist #14!  There are so many beautiful passages about unity in our country –  “the kindred blood which flows in the veins of American citizens, the mingled blood which they have shed in defense of their sacred rights, consecrate their Union, and excite horror at the idea of their becoming aliens, rivals, enemies.” While the American people “have paid a decent regard to the opinions of former times and other nations, they have not suffered a blind veneration for antiquity, for custom, or for names, to overrule the suggestions of their own good sense, the knowledge of their own situation, and the lessons of their own experience…”  But the item that most caught my attention was the discussion of the difference between a republic and a democracy. I was struck by the fact that many of the communication and travel constraints our founding fathers operated under have been removed in present day by technology, and by the fact that technology is facilitating our country’s move toward democracy, something our founding fathers would not see as an improvement.

The difference between a republic and a democracy is so important, and so little understood.  In Federalist 14 and elsewhere, Publius devotes a good amount of time explaining the difference between these two forms of government, and detailing the weaknesses of a democracy as opposed to a republic.  In our founding fathers’ time, a democracy within a large geographic area was impossible, limited by the “distance from the central point which will just permit the most remote citizens to assemble as often as their public functions demand, and will include no greater number than can join in those functions.”  In Federalist 14 Madison points out that the geographic size makes the United States much more suited to a republic than a democracy.

Today, technology has erased the constraint imposed by geographic size, and our culture is drawing us towards democracy. Television shows such as American Idol where millions of people cast ballots; online polls where instant readouts of the public’s tastes, preferences and opinions are measured; Twitter, Facebook: all put more power than ever in the collective public’s hands to instantly express opinions on any matter.

But the weakness of pure democracy is the same, whether it is a small geographic area where the people are physically coming together to vote on every issue affecting them, or whether it is millions sitting at computers, in front of their televisions, or texting on their cellphones “voting.”  As Hamilton states in Federalist 71, “The republican principle demands that the deliberate sense of the community should govern the conduct of those to whom they intrust the management of their affairs; but it does not require an unqualified complaisance to every sudden breeze of passion, or to every transient impulse which the people may receive from the arts of men, who flatter their prejudices to betray their interests.”

In Federalist 10 the weakness of pure democracy was summed up this way: “From this view of the subject it may be concluded that a pure democracy, by which I mean a society consisting of a small number of citizens, who assemble and administer the government in person, can admit of no cure for the mischiefs of faction. A common passion or interest will, in almost every case, be felt by a majority of the whole; a communication and concert result from the form of government itself; and there is nothing to check the inducements to sacrifice the weaker party or an obnoxious individual. Hence it is that such democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and have in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths. Theoretic politicians, who have patronized this species of government, have erroneously supposed that by reducing mankind to a perfect equality in their political rights, they would, at the same time, be perfectly equalized and assimilated in their possessions, their opinions, and their passions.

As the culture draws us toward democracy, and with the geographic constraints on democracy removed by technology, it is more important than ever that we understand the systemic flaws of this type of governance.

Our elected officials must be firmly grounded in the meaning of the republic, and their role in balancing competing interests and factions.  We must understand the fundamental reasoning and principles that drew our founding fathers to govern through a republic, and the Federalist Papers are vital for that understanding.

I am so grateful for all who are adding to our knowledge base each day, and journeying with us through these readings.  Thank you!!

Good night and God Bless!

Cathy Gillespie

 

Guest Blogger: W. B. Allen, Dean and Professor Emeritus, Michigan State University

Sunday, May 16th, 2010

In the fourteenth essay Publius argues that America has discovered the merit of making the mechanical principle of representation the basis of unmixed and extensive republics. This is not only an extended republic, but it is a republic in which we do not have to make a special place for the rich and the poor. We will not reserve one legislative house for the rich, another house for the poor. We will not create formal classes in government, and the government will not depend on class distinctions.

It may not have been observed that the tenth essay’s principle of the extended sphere of the republic has a consequence in the operations of politics. There will be commerce, and single district representation also. There will be the “multiplicity of interests.” But we must not neglect that as interests multiply they must affect more people. The consequence of that fact for the ancient distinction between the rich and the poor is a significant diminution in the numbers of the poor. The logic and dynamic of the extended commercial republic is precisely to squeeze rich and poor towards the middle.

The real impact of this constitutional design is to get rid of the struggle between the rich and the poor. The great American middle class is an historical oddity that has come to characterize all the modern world impacted by the industrial revolution and the principles of modern republicanism. This growing middle class is the basis of the unmixed constitution, a constitution founded on the middle class that turned almost into the only “class.” One of the most extraordinary things about the argument in the tenth essay, which is reflected as well in the fourteenth essay, is that it anticipates the nineteenth century debate about class and political life. Publius responded in advance, in effect, to the arguments of Marx and others, insisting that the United States need not have the rich overcome the poor or the poor overcome the rich. It could rather offer a social, economic, and political dynamic through which in fact those distinctions disappear in terms of their political significance.

Grant we must that what are called the super-rich do exist, as do the tabloid sheets that celebrate. But we do not view the rich, or even the super-rich as a class. Which is the reason that they can be just about anyone, from extraordinarily gifted athletes to people of very old money and families. They are isolated; they are individuals. They are not a class. In fact the only thing that distinguishes them today is their money. Otherwise they seem much like everybody else, and sometimes less. What matters is that this happened not by accident; it happened by a constitutional design that aimed to base the Constitution’s support on the strength of a very large middle class.

The claim, therefore, in the fourth paragraph of the fourteenth essay, that we have an umixed and extensive republic, goes to the very heart of the Antifederalist challenges to the Constitution and leads Publius to inquire in the paragraphs following, what are the limits of a democracy? and how are we supposed to calculate this? The question must be asked because we know that general arguments must be tested by practical limits. We cannot assume that there are no limits to representation as an approach, especially if we take seriously the task of “harmonizing and assimilating” differences. Differences must at least be kept to such a level that they are subject to being thus harmonized.

Publius provides a calculation in the fifth paragraph and those following. It is interesting because of what it says about 1787 technology and what it implies about the future. First, he describes the limits of democracy as a dynamic function: “the natural limit of democracy is that distance from the central point, which will just permit the most remote citizens to assemble as often as their public functions demand.”

The natural limit is the distance determined by public functions.  The natural limit of a republic is that distance from the center, which will barely allow the representatives of the people to meet as often as may be necessary for the administration of public affairs. Can it be said the limits of the United States exceed this distance? “It will not be said by those who recollect that the Atlantic coast is the longest side of the Union, that during the term of thirteen years, the representatives of the States have been almost continually assembled.”

To say that members of the Confederation Congress were “continually assembled” is a bit disingenuous; for although the Congress was almost constantly in session, one of the chief complaints about it was the notoriously poor attendance of delegates.

Publius then conducts a lesson in public geography, leading him to conclude that the ability to travel from any point, within a certain period of time (two weeks in 1787), to reach capital and conduct business, sets the allowable size of the system. This is a fairly mechanical definition, and it can be misleading. Not only does it not respond to the matter of harmonizing and assimilating, but it deflects attention from the ultimate basis of Publius’s judgment. The twelfth paragraph makes this clear, when Publius appeals to ties of affection to sustain “one great respectable and flourishing empire.”

In other words, Publius reminds us that we started with a Union, not with a theory on the strength of which we generated a Union. A theory may tell us that the Union is not too big for its britches, but that does not imply its indefinite extension. The condition for extending the Union is the continual existence of the Union. But that, in turn, would depend upon people accepting its principles, and first and foremost those principles enunciated in the Declaration of Independence.

Thus, two things operate simultaneously: first, the notion of the mechanical theory, the distance limit and, second, the moral limits, the moral distance. To the extent that we accomplish Union on the scale of the moral distance, it becomes possible by the mechanical theory to justify extending the reach of the Union, and not one bit farther.

W. B. Allen is Dean and Professor Emeritus of Michigan State University

 

Wednesday, May 19th, 2010

Have you been watching Janine’s Behind the Scenes Videos? They are fantastic! Last night Juliette Turner, Constituting America Youth Director, talked about the We The People 9.17 Contest, and how important it is that young people understand the Constitution and founding principles of our country!  Check out these fun, short videos – where else can you see pets reading the Federalist Papers, or meet Longhorns with names like Revolution or America’s Pride?  You’ll see some beautiful Texas landscapes, and if you click on the right one, you’ll even get to hear Janine sing the Star Spangled Banner!

Thank you to Professor Allison Hayward of George Mason University!  Your thorough explanation, and tie-in to Europe’s present day troubles, made Federalist No. 15 come alive!  Thank you also to all who posted today.  If you are reading, and haven’t written your comments in our blog, please join the conversation! We need your voice and view!

I echo Professor Hayward’s observation that Hamilton’s Federalist No. 15 is a bit of a downer after Madison’s optimistic essay yesterday.  Madison’s Federalist No. 14 made my heart swell with pride to be a citizen of the United States of America.   Federalist No. 15 reminds us that our country soared to greatness, strength and respect from humble beginnings. In 1788 the prospect of failure was very real.  Hamilton does a brilliant job describing the environment, and paints a bleak picture, “the last stage of national humiliation”:  lack of respect in the world, debt, no troops, declining commerce and land values, lack of private credit –  the list goes on and on.  The country was at a low point.

But out of this low point, rose our great Nation – rebuilt upon the framework of the United States Constitution.  In fact, if all had been going well in the late 1780′s, the beautiful, unique, perfectly balanced republic that emerged might never have been born.

That is the lesson I take from Federalist No. 15. And one I have learned from Constituting America’s co-chair and my good friend, Janine Turner, who is an inspiration to me.  Janine often speaks about how tough times etch our character and shape us into who God wants us to be.  The tough times in Hamilton’s day produced the United States Constitution.

Our country is again going through tough times.   Hamilton’s words throughout Federalist No. 15 could easily be describing our present day circumstances. But look what these tough times have already wrought:  a renewed passion and engagement of the citizens of the United States!    There is an energy and thirst for knowledge taking hold across the country that I have not felt before in the 25 years in which I have been involved in politics.

Where will this lead? What lies ahead?  When we Americans join together, with our spirit of enterprise, ingenuity and passion, only good things will result. We are once again on the “precipice” Alexander Hamilton speaks of, but I predict we will not plunge into the abyss.  Instead, we will emerge stronger, fortified, with a renewed, patriot’s zeal and commitment to our country’s founding principles.

I look forward to the readings that lie ahead, sharing with you and others, and putting what I am learning to use!

Good night and God bless!

Cathy Gillespie

 

Guest Blogger: Professor Allison Hayward, George Mason School of Law and fellow with the Center for Competitive Politics

Tuesday, May 18th, 2010

Federalist #15

Alexander Hamilton’s Federalist 15 is a gloomy counterweight to Madison’s optimistic Number 14. Madison ended No. 14 praising the noble course set by the founders of the new nation. Hamilton’s No. 15 is like a splash of cold water, reminding citizens of the moment’s terrible perils.

And the troubles are many. The nation’s present configuration is inadequate to the task. The central government cannot govern, and thus cannot honor its debts, defend its territory, engage in diplomacy, or unite its constituent state governments.

And therin lies the rub, not just for Hamilton and the founders, but for generations afterward. How should the central national government relate to the states? The states are the unit of government charged with the ratification of the constitution. But Hamilton knows that a “mere” confederation of states will not survive, not in the dangerous world of the late 18th century. The central government needs sufficient power to govern the nation as one unit, when solidarity is required. Recalcitrant states must be brought to heel to honor their obligations. That meant, in contrast to the Article of Confederation, extending the federal government’s power to impose obligations upon real citizens as individuals, not just intangible state governments.

This is a big step. Hamilton’s challenge is to appeal to his reader’s fear of irresponsible state governments. He can then position the national government as a solution to that problem, rather than as a tyrant to be feared itself. But among his readers are also the political leaders within New York, so he must argue carefully. He isn’t attempting to convince his New York readers they need to fear for irresponsibility in their own state government. He doesn’t need to accuse them of fecklessness. It is enough that other states will take advantage of a weak central government to pursue short term agendas to the ultimate detriment of all.

As we know, debate over the size and scope of the federal government persisted after the ratification, even to this day. From our vantage point, it may seem odd to entertain the notion that the central government could be too weak. Federal statutes and regulations reach deeply into American society, and into areas of governance traditionally left to state and local governments, such as criminal law, education and corporate governance. But in 1787, the prospect that the United States could become a “failed” state was real. However one feels about the size of government today, reading Hamilton should remind us that “ordered liberty” requires some authority to maintain the order.

Federalist 15 makes interesting reading in light of the financial crisis in Europe. Although the EU has an executive, the power of the central government is fragile and nothing like that established by the Constitution. Is the European Union sufficiently powerful to bring fiscal order to its constituent nations? Or will the lack of fiscal discipline in Greece, to name but one member, pull the EU down, destroy the Euro, and provoke domestic crisis throughout Europe? Can Europe impose a federal solution? I suspect that the EU may fail, because its constituent nations will be unwilling to yield the necessary sovereignty to create a sufficient federal government.

Professor Allison Hayward teaches election law at George Mason School of Law and is also a fellow with the Center for Competitive Politics

 

16 Responses to “May 18 – Federalist No. 15 – The Insufficiency of the Present Confederation to Preserve the Union, For the Independent Journal (Hamilton) – Guest Blogger: Professor Allison Hayward, George Mason School of Law and fellow with the Center for Competitive Politics”

Susan Craig says:
May 18, 2010 at 10:01 am
Honor and restraint seem to be the necessary ingredient that both Madison and Hamilton imply. Especially in this quote from #15: “should you permit that sacred knot which binds the people of America together be severed or dissolved by ambition or by avarice, by jealousy or by misrepresentation.” Unfortunately quite a few of the list seem to be rampant in today’s world. I think the most damaging is misrepresentation (aka lying). Presenting your self or your program in language that obfuscates the intent. Most recent example “Employee free choice Act”. How ironic the “Big Government” of 1787 is now looked on as the ideal of the “Small Government” people. As we traveled from 1787 to now it seems that we suffered from the belief that if this much is good maybe a little more will be better.

Susan Craig says:
May 18, 2010 at 10:37 am
Found an interesting chart defining the ‘factions’
The Parties as they were constituted at inception:
Republicans (aka Anti-Federalist)——————–Federalist
radical Whig—————————————-moderate Whig (can anyone define Whig belief)
localists——————————————–more centralist
agrarian——————————————–commercial
less taxation—————————————-taxation
balanced budget————————————deficit (as a tool for credit)
egalitarian—————————————— enlightened paternalist
strict construction———————————–broad interpretation
pro-French——————————————pro-British
expansionist—————————————–reluctant expansion
became modern Dems——————————–became the modern Reps
Does it strike you that there is coming another 180?

Charles Babb says:
May 18, 2010 at 11:21 am
Professor Hayward, your analysis of Federalist No. 15 is very enlightening.
However, Publius may have been short sighted in his view. The balance of power still seems to be a problem. In 1787, the States were “recalcitrant” of their fiduciary and other responsibilities to the Confederacy. The Constitution seems to have solved that problem, but will it solve today’s dilemma caused by a Federal governments bribing the States into prostituting away (using the citizens tax dollars) the liberties of their citizens, with it’s tentacles wrapped firmly around our throats in many areas. Especially in the area of education. They realize that a people made dumb as sheep, are easily led to slaughter.
Today we have a federal government that refuses to enforce the laws it has passed; but wants to bring legal action against a State which, in desperation for life, limb and property, tries to take upon itself that task of citizen security, for which the federal government is now recalcitrant. The federal legislature is so enthralled with a power grab that all they can talk about is creating “comprehensive legislation”, rather than insisting on the enforcement of the laws already on the books. K_I_S_S.
Friends, passion has caused me to exceed the bonds of strict adherence to the analysis of FEDERALIST No. 15, I beg your indulgence.
MAY GOD BLESS AMERICA

Ron Meier says:
May 18, 2010 at 12:24 pm
We are going through this exercise of reading the Federalist Papers @ a time in world history when we get see first hand what our founders were talking about in the first 20 or so papers. As Professor Hayward notes, we are watching a Confederation in Europe crumble before our very eyes, and we can refer back to the various FPs to understand why.
At the same time, we are seeing in our own country the very thing that the States and citizens were worried about with respect to our Federal government attempting to consolidate power by having complete control over two of the three branches of government and attempting to neutralize the ability of the states, particularly Arizona, from protecting their own interests.
It’s great that we are able to analyze what we see, hear, and read more rationally, rather than just passionately, as a consequence of reading the FP. The language of the authors of the FP makes reading and understanding somewhat arduous, but enlightening when the gist of each article comes through.

Carolyn Attaway says:
May 18, 2010 at 12:24 pm
I found Paper 15 to be very relevant to current events. I could not help but think of all the situations that are occurring in and around America today, as I read Hamilton’s debate for a Federal Government.
The third paragraph had excerpts that jumped from the page which served as reminders of why we need a sound and common sense Federal Government, and not one set on pushing its own agenda. Hamilton states “We may indeed with propriety be said to have reached almost the last stage of national humiliation. There is scarcely anything that can wound the pride or degrade the character of an independent nation which we do not experience….Do we owe debts to foreigners and to our own citizens contracted in a time of imminent peril for the preservation of our political existence?….We have neither troops, nor treasury, nor government….Is commerce of importance to national wealth?….Is respectability in the eyes of foreign powers a safeguard against foreign encroachments? The imbecility of our government even forbids them to treat with us.”
These statements, though written at an earlier time to defend the need of a Federal Government, can be looked upon today as a defense to rid ourselves of the status quo in Congress. Hamilton tries to convince the people of New York of the need for a basic Federal Government whereas today it has become overbearing and oppressive. The Congress has allowed the United States to be humiliated, and has apologized for her standing as a Superpower to other countries. They have endangered our AAA rating in the financial markets by increasing our debt to foreign powers as well as to their own citizens.
We may have military power, but it is constantly being undermined by accusations and political correctness. We have no treasury, and our federal government is quickly becoming imbecilic. I believe Congress has forgotten the reason behind its creation.
Hamilton writes: “Government implies the power of making laws. It is essential to the idea of a law, that it be attended with a sanction; or, in other words, a penalty or punishment for disobedience. If there be no penalty annexed to disobedience, the resolutions or commands which pretend to be laws will, in fact, amount to nothing more than advice or recommendation.” I realize that this statement was intended for the States in trying to form a Union, but I cannot help but see the hypocrisy in this statement when in it is applied to the Federal Government in relation to the immigration laws and dealing with enemy combatants.
One of the main reasons for a Federal Government was, and is, National Security. Our Congress views the laws to these issues as recommendations, to be applied to their best advantage, when in fact, it should be their number priority.
I heard the following on the news yesterday, “Most of the illegals caught crossing are from Mexico or South America, but thousands are classified as OTMs, “other than Mexicans,” including hundreds from nations that sponsor terror. These are the records we obtained at this federal detention center near Phoenix, Arizona. We find illegals from Afghanistan, Egypt, Iran, Iraq, Pakistan, Sudan, and Yemen in custody. This congressional report on border threats confirms members of Hezbollah have crossed the southwest border. It also contains photos of military jackets found on the border. The Arab insignia reads: “Martyr: Way to eternal life.” The other depicts a plane crashing into the Twin Towers. The congressional report also reveals the route Middle Easterners take. They travel from Europe to South America to the tri border region where they learn to speak Spanish, then travel to Mexico and blend in with other illegals heading to this country. Former Arizona Governor Janet Napolitano is now secretary of Homeland Security. We wanted to ask her about the border threat, but our request for an interview was never answered.” (Link: http://www.wsbtv.com/news/23434381/detail.html)
Instead of securing our borders, Congress is inviting illegal immigrants to the bounty produced by hardworking citizens, and admonishes those who question their actions.

Dave says:
May 18, 2010 at 1:15 pm
Thank you, Professor Hayward for your thoughts on Hamilton’s No. 15. I was struck by the tone of the paper, and more specifically, the words and phrases Hamilton used to describe the situation back in the early winter of 1787. The “troubles are many.” They probably were, but I couldn’t help picture Hamilton as Professor Harold Hill in the Music Man singing “We Got Trouble.” In writing about the “material imperfections” and “those defects in the scheme of our federal government” under the Articles of Confederation, Hamilton does seem to be a tad hyperbolic: “impending anarchy,” “national humiliation,” “imbecility of our government,” “mimic sovereignty,” “melancholy situation,” “brink of a precipice,” “plunge us into the abyss,” “destitute of energy,” “political monster,” “desperate extremity,” and “the frail and tottering edifice.” He sums it all up by basically saying that anything that could have gone wrong has gone wrong. Here is a master salesman at work.
Hamilton knows the stakes and is not shy in making the hard sell. America is in dire straits and anyone who opposes the plan of union can be characterized “by ambition or by avarice, by jealousy or by misrepresentation.” The negative aspects of our human nature never seem to be present in the supporters of the plan. They all have the Wisdom of Solomon, the calm patience of Job, and the self-sacrifice of Jesus. Let’s be honest, Hamilton knew his duly revered General Washington would most likely be chosen as the first president and that he, Hamilton, would be in the first administration. It is to be remembered that it was Hamilton’s plan at the Constitutional Convention that had a president for life with supreme veto power over any and all laws.
So, even if his Bill of Particulars, “enumeration of particulars,” presents a convincing indictment against the existing Confederation, Publius should still be tasked to justify his solution to “this desperate extremity.” Publius has 70 more papers to make his case. Will the new plan of union truly protect the governed so they may enjoy the prime object of government, ordered liberty?
One is tempted to ask, “Who decides what, and how much, order?” In the end, force or the threat of force must become a real possibility. Washington said, “Government is not reason, it is not eloquence—it is force! Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master.”
Thank you Professor Hayward for bringing in the current EU troubles. This seems to be analogous to what Hamilton said about the law must have sanctions. How is the EU to act against Greece but by force (“military execution”) or the threat of force, if Greece decides not to honor her agreements.
In No. 15 there exists a rallying cry for our times: “[L]et us make a firm stand for our safety, our tranquility, our dignity, our reputation. Let us at last break the fatal charm [of Statism of all kinds] which has too long seduced us from the paths of felicity and prosperity.”

Carolyn Attaway says:
May 18, 2010 at 1:44 pm
Thank you Dave for mentioning the statement in your last paragraph. I too feel this is a rallying cry for our times. I highlighted it in my reading of Paper 15 and drew an arrow to the last sentence six paragraphs down: “we must extend the authority of the Union to the persons of the citizens, –the only proper objects of government.” As citizens of the United States, I believe it is our task to keep our government in check, and be more active in our involvement than just voting.

Maggie says:
May 18, 2010 at 2:19 pm
Carolyn I couldn’t agree more. When I read “Do we owe debts to foreigners and to our own citizens contracted in a time of imminent peril for the preservation of our political existence?”, I instantly thought of China and how much of our debt they hold. We are literally selling away our power. I was also struck by this statement: “We have neither troops, nor treasury, nor government”. Yes, we have a very strong military; but for how much longer when every democratic administration that comes into power further defunds the troops? I, too, immediately thought of the immigration issues with Hamilton’s writing “Government implies the power of making laws. It is essential to the idea of a law, that it be attended with a sanction; or, in other words, a penalty or punishment for disobedience. If there be no penalty annexed to disobedience, the resolutions or commands which pretend to be laws will, in fact, amount to nothing more than advice or recommendation.” I believe that this quote stands for many laws on our books that are simply NOT being enforced. Every time a politician brings up gun control and how “we need more laws” all I can do is think about the many laws we already have controlling the ownership of firearms….they just aren’t being enforced. Why is it that those in Washington just don’t seem to comprehend that criminals don’t care about laws? They have already broken laws…that is why they are CRIMINALS. Further revoking the rights of law abiding citizens will NEVER change that.

Lynne Newcomer says:
May 18, 2010 at 3:22 pm
Thank you Professor Hayward for your quidence on this paper.
I do so agree with so much that has been written by everyone that it would waste time to name everyone.
Simply… with regard to AZ, we are either a Nation of laws or we are not.The Gov of AZ.showed remarkable fortitude to stand up to Washington.She is no fool she knew she would meet with much hateful speech etc, but went on and is weathering the storm hip- hip- hurray.The fact that Washington is lowering the standards of civil, and acceptable dialogue is surely regretable but the sanctions are going to come their way,and they will come from the voting booth.We are a smart people and we know the Pres,and Congress ore failing to do their jobs.
I like the EU example, the officers of the EU,seem to be toothless and of a more ceremonial nature.I do hope that they find their way .

Dave says:
May 18, 2010 at 3:49 pm
Carolyn, what I think everyone can accept is that a sovereign implies some control over the individual. The sticking point for the Anti-federalists (and for me I’ve lately learned) seemed to be how justly and efficiently a distant, centralized power would govern. We’ve seen some elaboration and we’ll see a lot more of the compromise reached between the consolidators and confederals. The consolidators placed their trust in the State. Those advocating for more of a true federal system wanted a buffer between the national government and the individual. There would be two sovereigns over the individual, each with their own sphere of authority. General, national concerns would fall under the purview of the general government, and the local, private, every-day concerns would be handled by the state or local government. I think it’s quite workable in a republic of virtue, in spite of Hamilton’s slam of an imperium in imperio as a “political monster.”
The irony should not be lost on any of us reading No. 15–Hamilton was indicting the weak national system of the government under the Articles of Confederation and yet almost every malady he mentions could apply today in spite of a very strong leviathan, national government. Publius is constantly urging opponents of the plan to open their eyes to the light of reason and experience and see that an energetic, wide-ranging central power will cure all their ills. We’ve gone wrong somewhere. Would that there were a modern-day Publius to counsel us on how we’ve gotten off course and what we can do to get back on the right course.
I do know our state governments have let us down. Here’s a sampling of excerpts we will read in the next few weeks showing the buffer role of the states I mentioned:
We may safely rely on the disposition of the State legislatures to erect barriers against the encroachments of the national authority. (No. 85)
The executive and legislative bodies of each State will be so many sentinels (No. 84)
But ambitious encroachments of the federal government on the authority of the State governments would not excite the opposition of a single State, or of a few States only. They would be signals of general alarm (No. 46)
schemes of usurpation will be easily defeated by the State governments (No. 46)
I should not have rambled on so. All I wanted to say is that I agree with you in the role of the individual, but the states have a responsibility and they seem to be shirking it.

Jimmy Green says:
May 18, 2010 at 4:32 pm
The theme of the States surrendering some power to the Federal Government via the Constitution to strengthen their security and prosperity through a Union of these same states is a continual
theme in the federalist papers.
While I generally agree with the adage of “united we stand divided we fall”
I would be more interested in Hamilton’s views on what should occur if the Federal government fails to uphold its enumerated powers.
What are the states rights if the federal government abrogates or is lacking or deficient in its constitutional powers.
I’ve seen mentions of the Arizona law in some people’s writings. What would Hamilton think the proper response of a state to the Federal Governments lack of securing the borders? There are many such examples but as the federalist papers are to explain why the states should unite one is left to wonder what Hamilton’s view are on states rights as a consequence of the failures of the Fed.

Shannon Castleman says:
May 18, 2010 at 4:38 pm
Dave, indulge away. Great points. Those who have brought up the EU are right on. True, we have a front row seat , as though we went back in a time mchine, to watch the disintegration the former empire across the pond.
But the Professor’s statement brought it to a new light for mr when she said that the EU actually needs to be stronger (like hamilton wanted for the US). It was hard for m to grasp as I always viewed individually the nations of Europe to be too much beholden to central government.
But now I see the reasoning behind that.
I am learning so much.

Carolyn Attaway says:
May 18, 2010 at 5:26 pm
Maggie, I agree with you about being over regulated by our government. If I hear of one more law that strips away our right to make choices, I think I will scream. Oops! Sorry! I have already done that. This latest push to take away McDonalds right to put a toy in their happy meal because parents shouldn’t be burdened with having to tell their children NO, I think takes the cake. If I wanted a nanny, I would have hired one.
I agree as well that our 1st and 2nd amendment rights are under major attack, but the people in Congress who are suppose to care, just roll over and admit defeat. I am soooo ready for November.
Dave, you have me in your corner in the belief that States have been giving away their rights piecemeal by piecemeal. Many are starting to wakeup in lieu of all the costs that they will be burdened with, I just hope it is not to late. Regarding your wish for a modern-day Publius, Gov. Chris Christie is on the right track, and if he succeeds in lifting up New Jersey, we may have someone other Governors may try to imitate.

Carolyn Merritt says:
May 18, 2010 at 7:51 pm
Thank you Professor Hayward for your enlightening analysis of Federalist 15. Hamilton could have written this paper for what is happening to our Country today. We are heaviily in debt, our military is being undermined by Congress and this President; toll roads, power companies, oil companies owned by foreign countries; we print money just as fast as this government can spend it and worse of all – our respect around the World is diminishing because of all the apologists in the current admininstration.
I liked Hamilton statement “Why has government been instituted at all? Because the passions of men will not conform to the dictates of reason and justice without constraint.”
Amen Charles: “May God Bless America.”

Constituting America says:
May 19, 2010 at 12:23 am
Relevancy today. It is very clear in Federalist Paper No. 15 that cohesion between the states was necessary in order to preserve our union in a viable way.
Our guest scholar, Professor Allison Hayward, (I thank you Professor Hayward for your wonderful essay!) speculates about the future of today’s European Union, “I suspect that the EU may fail, because its constituent nations will be unwilling to yield the necessary sovereignty to create a sufficient federal government.”
The potential failure of the European countries to render themselves to a singular government speaks volumes about why the United States was able to succeed. Americans had the foresight and the fortitude to unite after the Revolution, rendering brilliant results. Thus, two miracles birthed the United States of America, one the success of the Revolutionary war, the other the success of the United States Constitution.
Homage must be paid to our Constitutional forefathers who tirelessly, tenaciously and methodically gave their time and talents to achieve the three pertinent steps: the Constitutional Convention, the rendering of the Constitution and the eventual ratification. This was no easy feat, yet it proved to be our rallying point and the launching pad for realizing the potential of our countrymen and the wealth of the land.
Yet, today, we must question if the confines of our great Constitution have been stretched beyond what our forefathers intended. A federal government to persevere and preserve is very different than a federal government to control and contrive.
Here are some of Alexander Hamilton’s words that I find relevant today and thought provoking:
“I have unfolded to you a complication of dangers to which you would be exposed, should you permit that sacred knot, which binds the people of America together, to be severed or dissolved by ambition or by avarice, by jealousy or by misrepresentation.”
“We may indeed, with propriety, be said to have reached almost the last stages of national humiliation. There is scarcely any thing that can wound the pride, or degrade the character, of an independent people, which we do not experience.”
“Do we owe debt to foreigners, and to our own citizens, contracted in a time of imminent peril, for the preservation of our political existence?”
“Is public credit an indispensable resource in a time of public danger?”
“Because the passions of men will not conform to the dictates of reason and justice, without constraint.”
“The rulers of the respective members, whether they have a constitutional right to do it or not, will undertake to judge of the propriety of the measures themselves. They will consider the conformity of the thing proposed or required to their immediate interests or aims; the momentary conveniences or inconveniences that would attend its adoption.”
Are we not experiencing all of the above today?
God Bless,
Janine Turner

May 18, 2010
Constituting America says:

May 19, 2010 at 12:55 am
Have you been watching Janine’s Behind the Scenes Videos? They are fantastic! Last night Juliette Turner, Constituting America Youth Director, talked about the We The People 9.17 Contest, and how important it is that young people understand the Constitution and founding principles of our country! Check out these fun, short videos – where else can you see pets reading the Federalist Papers, or meet Longhorns with names like Revolution or America’s Pride? You’ll see some beautiful Texas landscapes, and if you click on the right one, you’ll even get to hear Janine sing the Star Spangled Banner!
Thank you to Professor Allison Hayward of George Mason University! Your thorough explanation, and tie-in to Europe’s present day troubles, made Federalist No. 15 come alive! Thank you also to all who posted today. If you are reading, and haven’t written your comments in our blog, please join the conversation! We need your voice and view!
I echo Professor Hayward’s observation that Hamilton’s Federalist No. 15 is a bit of a downer after Madison’s optimistic essay yesterday. Madison’s Federalist No. 14 made my heart swell with pride to be a citizen of the United States of America. Federalist No. 15 reminds us that our country soared to greatness, strength and respect from humble beginnings. In 1788 the prospect of failure was very real. Hamilton does a brilliant job describing the environment, and paints a bleak picture, “the last stage of national humiliation”: lack of respect in the world, debt, no troops, declining commerce and land values, lack of private credit – the list goes on and on. The country was at a low point.
But out of this low point, rose our great Nation – rebuilt upon the framework of the United States Constitution. In fact, if all had been going well in the late 1780’s, the beautiful, unique, perfectly balanced republic that emerged might never have been born.
That is the lesson I take from Federalist No. 15. And one I have learned from Constituting America’s co-chair and my good friend, Janine Turner, who is an inspiration to me. Janine often speaks about how tough times etch our character and shape us into who God wants us to be. The tough times in Hamilton’s day produced the United States Constitution.
Our country is again going through tough times. Hamilton’s words throughout Federalist No. 15 could easily be describing our present day circumstances. But look what these tough times have already wrought: a renewed passion and engagement of the citizens of the United States! There is an energy and thirst for knowledge taking hold across the country that I have not felt before in the 25 years in which I have been involved in politics.
Where will this lead? What lies ahead? When we Americans join together, with our spirit of enterprise, ingenuity and passion, only good things will result. We are once again on the “precipice” Alexander Hamilton speaks of, but I predict we will not plunge into the abyss. Instead, we will emerge stronger, fortified, with a renewed, patriot’s zeal and commitment to our country’s founding principles.
I look forward to the readings that lie ahead, sharing with you and others, and putting what I am learning to use!
Good night and God bless!
Cathy Gillespie
May 18, 2010